From: Scott AJ (
Date: 11/05/96

> From: Amy & Ryan Biggs <>
> Subject: Re: [Circle][OFF-TOPIC] IDIOTS
> On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Mud Administration wrote:
> > I dont mean to sound rude to all us NICE coders, BUT the ones who get to
> > writing mail and bad mouthing newbies need to leave...  If you bad
> >mouthers do
> > not want to hear from newbies then get off this channel and go somewhere
> > else.  This channel is for people to share ideas and to express opinions
> > and ask for help..  10 to 1 says you bad mouthers have asked for help on
> > here before and now that you know something you get mad at the NEWBIEs
> > for wanting to learn.  If people want to have patchs of stuff you do have
> > the right to say no if you made it yourself, but how is ANYONE going to
> > learn if no-one is willing to teach or to help.
> I have typically stayed away from discussions that could excel to flames,
> but this one has just struck a nerve.  I have been on here for a couple
> months now, and since then I have both used code from here, and posted code
> from here.  I have participated in discussions on many things from
> role-playing to what a necromancer could be called.  I have asked for help
> and given help, but this has pushed me into taking a stance.  I don't mind
> people asking for help, and depending on my mood, I may just ignore it, or
> I may even help the person.
> But this is the clincher, It's the TONE that can sway me.  If someone comes
> on and asks for help with some bizzare problem, and I've encountered it
> before, ot have an idea what it may be, and shows that they are stumped,
> they will be well received, as their tone is that of pleading, of asking
> for help, and more importantly, a humble attitude.  They are humbling
> themselves and asking for help.  That is a very mature attitude, and it
> gets better responses.
> If someone posts a log of their compile errors and expects someone to debug
> the problem for them with just a "This is what I got, what's the problem?"
> That is not going to get the same good response.  Why?  The person is
> acting like we are SUPPOSED to solve the problem for them.
> And now, the post that started this.  The attitude, to put it bluntly,
> SUCKED.  I'm sorry, but coming on here, and teliing someone what you want,
> and then telling them to mail it to you when they finish it, is quite
> arrogant and rude.  This list is not here for your service.  This list has
> not been set up solely so that you can come on and ask us to code for you.
> That is an attitude that will get you nothing but ire.  If you had asked us
> for advice on how to start, on what things to implement, or where to look
> for ideas, there would have been many positive responses.  Instead, we
> practically were ordered to do coding for you.  Unless I'm getting paid to
> do it, I don't code for anyone but myself, and I'm sure that a good portion
> of the coders on here would agree with that.
> In summary, think about what you want.  If you are just wanting a code
> snippet that has been made, hey, go for it.  If you want someone to program
> something for you, then you'd better be VERY careful how you word it.
> Instead of asking for someone to program it, ask for ideas how to start, or
> what to look at.
> The Husband and Wife team from heck!
> E-mail:
> Amy Biggs:
> Ryan Biggs:

I am not flaming here, but I am explaining how alot of us newbie coders
feel. Alot of us have no C coding ability at all, but wish to learn as we
go along - i am one of these, only having COBOL and MODULE-2 coding skills
(i know - eeeeerk :P). However I still want to get a mud running quickly
while I learn C, and so we ask for people with C experience to help us -
after all once we have learned C we can help you with your problems :)
 Therefore please just ignore our long lists of compiling errors if you
cannot be bothered to help, but please dont flame the list just because
your sick of inexperienced people doing muds :)

Amoeba Implementor of Perculiar People Mud......if I ever get my site...

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