I strangely feel the need to add my two cents to this discussion eeeregarding splitting the list and the attitude towards newbies. I think that the problem being expressed is not truly stating the nature of the problem. Personally, I dont get the impression that everyone hates newbies and wants them off the list, or in their own list, but rather hates the obnoxious, immature, 'gimme' attitude that seems to come with a lot of newbies lately. This seems to be a fundamental problem with mud world and the internet in general. With more and more people having easy, cheap access to the internet, there are more and more younger people mudding, and interested in starting their own mud. If you read the mud newsgroups, you are hit with a deluge of "New circle mud, telnet here!" ads. Telnetting to the site, you are greeted with "Your mud nane here" title screens and the basic 4 races. People throw up stock muds right and left w/o caring, or w/o the expertise to code/run/adminster the mud. More and more people are subscribing to the list with the attitude that everyone else should help them because they gunzipped, untarred and compiled a stock circle mud. "Write a patch on this, help me with this, write this for me." A lot of questions which are not code related can easily be solved by taking the time and reading the documentation, reading the FAQ, experimenting with the mud, and listening to others. I did not really want to get into the subject of coding because I know from experience that you do not need coding experience to run a successful mud. I have established two muds, one of which is still running, and I currently run a third, which in my opinion is one of the better muds on the net ;). The extent of my coding experience is adding a spec_proc, or writing a new spell or skill. I have done this w/o extensive coding knowledge with the aid of a coding staff, and at the least a humble and polite attitude when asking strangers for help. My basic point to this long-winded message is, if you are a new mud imp, coder, whatever, take the time to read the documentation, fiddle around, etc, before coming to the list. And if you do come to the list for help, dont come here with the attitude of write my mud for me. Ask for help in a polite manner, and give enough information so that someone can help you with your problem. There seem to be a lot of "help, my olc is broken" questions, yet they dont state which version of olc they are using, which command is causing the problem, etc. Well..that is what I felt needed to be said about the recent debate. Take it how you will, but think on some of the things I wrote. Aleksandr Phoenix MUD mud.token.net 4000 +-----------------------------------------------------------+ | Ensure that you have read the CircleMUD Mailing List FAQ: | | http://cspo.queensu.ca/~fletcher/Circle/list_faq.html | +-----------------------------------------------------------+
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