Re: [THREAD] Fairness in Circle [*ouch*]

From: Jon Nielsen (nikolai@MONTANA.COM)
Date: 06/27/98

Del wrote:

> >
> > Lack of support?  I don't feel that I'm stretching when I say that the
> > CircleMUD community is one of the most newbie friendly coding communities
> > that there are.  It's just that newbies need to do some work on their end,
> > too.
> Yea right! most friendly newbie coding community my arse! Way to many times I
> see RTFM, etc.. instead of trying to teach the Newbie how to find his own
> answers!
The only questions that I have seen answered with RTF* are questions that
could easily be solved if the person would've taken the time to actually
look at the code they've written and try to understand what the outcome will
be. "You can give a person a fish. That will last them a meal; or you can
teach someone to fish, and that will last them a lifetime." If we tell every
newbie who asks a question like "How can I do this code?" without the person
trying to write some and mail it in for use to look at, just expecting a
handout, they will not learn. Period.

> I don't care how much 99% of the people in the world read, if they read a
> book on something (for example Coding C) they will not understand it all.
> Even you think its a requirement to get out there and code some, practice or
> what ever. That is NOT an assumption.
That's why, after you read the book, you go and try to do something. Then
reread chapters or even the whole book, go and try to do something, reread,
do something, reread, ad infinitum. Of course you don't understand something
the first time you read it usually, but practice makes perfect.

> > The man (or woman) who invented the wheel knew only that it was hard to
> > drag square things.  It's by testing that the wheel was created, and, with
> > a slight stretch of the imagination, you'll see that you have to test
> > things yourself before you'll actually learn something.
> >
> How many years did it take before man could FLY? When was the wheel created?
> I guess with a little imagination, man was trying to figure out how to fly
> for thousands of years since creating the wheel. Testing over and over, still
> may not get some people in the right direction. With one project I am working
> on, I don't know where to begin. Maybe in a few years I will. If I ask on
> here, I might be able to figure it out in a few weeks, or I might get "read a
> book".
It took a man relatively little time to learn how to fly, but that's not
the point. If someone asks someone else how to do it without giving at least
starting idea to the person or a little piece of code that they started
then there is really no incentive to help the person, because it sounds like
they want a handout.

> > Whoa, nellie!  You can't complain about the quality of another list and
> > blame it on this one.  Very ridiculous, indeed.
> I was not blaming this list for anything. I only stated that because I saw a
> few messages on here to newbies, refering them to the newbie list. Well, I am
> informing you and everyone else that the list seems a little quiet lately.
> That does NOT mean they will not get a response by any means. (oh, where do
> you think the people came from to start that list? AOL? I guess we can blame
> AOL and Compuserve for this problem too?)
It doesn't seem quiet, I've been averaging at least 30-some messages a day.
And what the Newbie list is for is for people who have the time/desire to
answer questions like, "What is a Macro?", so that Newbies won't get a reply
that is potentially bad.

> I have never asked anyone for code, I have asked how to do things. George has
> helped me learn how to write a few things. Those that he showed me how to do,
> I was able to transfer to other things. A few others have also helped me
> learn how to do things which any C book will not teach you how.
Right. I think he was referring to the general Newbie populus of this list.
And, yes, if you look at my quote below, that is how I believe one gets a
real knowledge of C (or anything), is to have someone that will help you
with your problems and point out mistakes and help you learn.

This is the first time I have responded to one of these threads, but it is
getting kind of rediculous. If you have a really basic question that any C
book would answer, try not to ask it and see if you can figure it out your-
self. If you want someone to code something for you, they probably won't.
If you need help, give ample information for the people on this list to
help you with.

> I will not give out my code, go develope your own mud.
That's is his right, he has worked hard for the code he has written (I'm
sure), and if he doesn't want to give it to the whole world, he doesn't
have to.

Jon Nielsen     <>
"To acquire knowledge, one must study; but to
aquire wisdom, one must observe."
 -Marilyn vos Savant

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