Re: Languages, HELP!

From: krenshala (
Date: 04/04/02

On Thu, Apr 04, 2002 at 09:54:46PM -0800, Daniel A. Koepke was heard to say:

> On Wed, 3 Apr 2002, krenshala wrote:
> > Not sure if its the best way to do it, but if you wanted non-speakers
> > to "hear" garbled, but "translatable", language you could do a
> > specific string scramble (such as changing "ABCDEFG" to "ABDEGCF"
> > [moving C and F to the end of the string]) and then a ROTn
> > replacement.

I was just throwing out a simple method of complicating the output =)

> That's more complex than is necessary, I believe.  If you must present a
> cryptogram to the user, then simply doing some random replacement will
> work to make the message indecipherable (probably).  That doesn't mean we
> have to abandon giving each language its own flavor and characteristics.
> Simply choose from a random set that is representative of the language's
> idiosyncrasies.  For instance,

<snip code>

I like this. =)  Much better than my idea.

> I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to do actual translation of
> the entire string, but this is the core of it.  Note that it does a pretty
> good job of giving the feel of a language.  Some examples from a test
> program:
>     % trans 'A simple test: Hello, world.'
>     translation(Orcish) = o rzgrjo zzzj: jsrqz, gzgrr.
>     translation(Elvish) = y sesrra hohn: fwlyo, hiwys.
>     translation(Common) = u yeyyqo kakm: wehzi, pubsp.
>     translation(Other) = u ruwrru ruwm: mumru, wurrr.
>     % trans 'There's a riddle on the cave wall...'
>     translation(Orcish) = zcogo'g z zzddcu zg zku gord zuqd...
>     translation(Elvish) = wswho'h e rwrlfa uy lha fero rony...
>     translation(Common) = qroju'd e tezvqe os bsi siba yuhc...
>     translation(Other) = rruru'r u murrro ur mwu ruru rurm...
> One can do further processing to produce interesting other effects.  For
> instance, for my "other" language, I eliminated r's not following a vowel
> and followed by a consonant, as well spaces and punctuation.  Between
> other concesuctive consonants, I added an apostrophe except for at the end
> of the string:
>     translation(Other) = rururumur'ro'urm'wururururm

Dak, would you mind if I steal the 'Other' language for use in my mud? =)
I *REALLY* like the output.

> Remember, any approach that doesn't use randomness or complete obscurity
> is vulnerable, no matter how complex you make it.  If you're going to use
> a dictionary based system (to translate known words), then you should also
> apply randomness to the output based upon environmental noise, speaker and
> listener proficiency, and any other affects you can think of to prevent
> players from trivially discovering the translation table.
> -dak


Larry Robinson

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