Re: Pet Peeves...(long!)

From: Danhiel Baker (
Date: 03/16/94

| Jeff "Teker" Fink writes:
| > Danhiel Baker writes:
| > 	Have the CHARM spell also make the MOB act wimpy while charmed; have
| > 	 the spell "broken" if the MOB does ever flee.  Alternatively, give
| > 	 the mob an 'Intelligence check' to see if the spell breaks - this'll
| > 	 give the MOB about a 55% chance(with the "base" 11 stats) to break
| > 	 the spell - which is a bit more "mage friendly".  See the 'charm 
| > 	 vengence' note below...
| I think it'd be better to only makre checks when a PC orders his/her
| followers to attack, or something to that effect. Once you've lost your
| saving throw (or never had one in the case of the pet shop) you're sunk,
| unless you are ordered to something that you'd have a problem with.
| (D&D style rules)

Actually, the Int-check/saving throw above would happen when a MOB fled
combat - signifying to me that their master put them in danger.  The saving
throw was just an option so that they would not always hate their master
for this.  I think that this *should* happen with pets, too, though perhaps
in such a situation they'll have even less of a chance of becoming disloyal
to their master than CHARMed mobs, simply due to their nature ("pets", not
charmed followers)

| > 	Make charmed mobs and pets automatically ASSIST their master
| I'm not sure if attaching the MOB_HELPER flag does this on default Circle,
| if not, we modified ours so that charmed helpers automatically assist their
| master. I'm not sure that I like the idea of always assisting, but I guess
| you can always leave your followers in the next room if you want to solo
| something.

My understanding of MOB_HELPER was that such a mob was supposed to aid other
mobs that were in combat in the same room - if the code indicates otherwise,
or if Jeremy reads this and sees that I'm wrong, please correct me ASAP for
the sake of the world files...  Hmm.. that auto-assist bit was something I
tossed into the mail as I was sending it, but I thought I mentioned allowing
this to be over-ridden if the mob was sitting/resting/sleeping.  That would
allow the PC to fight without the mobs aid when they wished.

| Also, aggressive monsters that are charmed should not be able to attack
| their master.

Yes, though I personally think that aggressive mobs should be more difficult
to charm in the first place.  Macroing 'n; cast 'charm' yevaud; s' and doing
it until it happens isn't terribly tough, and while there would be some 
danger of being attacked, you can always flee.  On the original Wiley mud
thee was a lich that I really had no hope of killing - but it had some
wonderful items.  I wished to charm it to get those items; on my first
try, he attacked me after I had charmed him, and before I could order
him to remove the items, drop all, and then get the items myself.  I
finally came up with a solution to this, using an army of beagles to
keep him occupied, LOTS of macros, and many, MANY trips to Thalos to
get the silver flutes, dropping them in the dump afterward in order
to make them regen so I could get more... and one other trick which
I won't reveal ;)  Anyway, if I had charmed that extremely BAD mob and
wandered the mud ordering him to kill stuff for me, *nothing* would have
stood in my way...  While that was also a slight world-balance problem,
allowing players to charm a aggressive mob should have more hitches than
charming a apssive mob.  Perhaps limit the duration of the spell greatly
when it is cast on an AGGR mob (note: check for WIMPY flag also; aggr/wimpy
mobs are not *really* aggressive, and shouldn't be harder to charm :),
or just keep it so that the mobs are aggressive.  A "solution" to handling
aggr charmed followers was posted to this list already - let players
figure it out (though it's not "realisitic", IMO... but it's a feature)  
Heh...could make the charm duration on AGGR mobs a random short amount of
time - those that play will fire... ;)

| > 	If the MOB has MEMORY, then when the charm spell runs out the MOB
| > 	 should have a chance to "remember" the person that has subjected
| > 	 them to slavery and forced combat.
| Agreed... I know I'd be pretty pissed if charm wore off on me. I think
| the mobs probably ought to start attacking as soon as the charm wears
| off. (Although this is probably alignment specific)

Yes, alignment and alignment differences could enter here easily.  It
could even be slightly more difficult to charm a mob with the "opposite"
alignment (good-evil; neutral isn't opposite to anything IMO).  Though,
I still think that *anybody*, no matter how "good", would attack their
former master (good would perceive them as evil, despite mud-alignment)

| > 	Pet Items - currently in circle code pets cannot get/be given any
| > 	 items.  Implementing a PET_ITEM object flag could add a bit of
| > 	 flavor to the mud, as well as providing yet-another outlet for
| > 	 the players money.
| Pet shops mobs are one of the few places we use the complicated monster
| scheme. We let them take stuff.... but set their strength so low that
| it doesn't do them a whole lot of good.
| > 	Modify the Pet Shop to actually deal with supplies - ie, randomly
| > 	 generate the number of each type of pet present to be sold at 
| > 	 start-up
| Again, I'm not sure if this has been implemented in Circle or not, but
| we have a maximum of 8 followers when you buy at the pet shop. We also
| made it so that you can't order pets to buy pets. This solves the
| endless trail problem rather nicely.

Heh... I remember on Copper Diku, when at one point they'd limited
the number of followers you could own to 2... ppl would buy 2 followers
and then those followers would buy followers with money you gave them.
I don't think "deeper" hierarchies worked.

| > 	 -- Getting to the point....
| > 	 Charmed MOBs/pets help out in battle, both through attacking
| > 	 for and often taking the hits for their master.
| Which is why mobs should look to see if they're fighting a charmed follower,
| and if so, switch to start hitting the master instead. It might be a neat
| trick to have all charmed mobs in combat flee when their master leaves the
| room.

*nod* this is a standard Diku function, though sometimes it takes awhile.
I personally think that mobs should not be able to immediately deduce that
you ordered the kittens to attack them, and therefore *you* are the real
threat.  I like the fleeing-without-master idea... I think that would
cut down alot on some pet-abuses I've seen (Imagine 50 pets attacking
the Keeper of the Ring while their master waits outside - it's sickening!)
| > 	 This, unto itself, is a great boon to anyone lacking a group,
| > 	 or simply light on firepower/cannon-fodder.
| The biggest problem we've had is the charm flute in Thalos. It definitely
| needs to be given to a moving lamia, rather than just regenerating in
| the room... otherwise we have no PC groups on the MUD... everyone's
| running around with cityguards, etc.
| -Jeff
In the world files with the Circle source currently available, the flute
is actually held by the beholder.  *That* slows down it's use!  It is a
slightly better flute than normal though - lev 18, 2 charges vs lev 17 and
only 1 charge.

- Danny

| Danhiel Baker // Derkhil CatSpawn         /) /)     Fade away
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