Them newbie C questions

From: Thomas Krautz (
Date: 05/09/96

>On Wed, 8 May 1996, Billy H. Chan wrote:
>> <Strom finds a nice tall horse and stands on it>
>> Don't want to sound high on myself or anything, but is it me or has there
>> been an increase in people not knowing how to program in the first place 
>> asking technical questions about the programing language itself?  I 
>find it
>> strange why people can't go buy a nice book or two on how to program in C
>> before doing it.  It's really easy if you read first.
>Yes, I have noticed that trend.  But doesn't mean that someone can be 
>flamed for it though, right?  Understand, we were all newbies once.  Some 
>people have different ways of approaching a problem and should not be 
>condemned for it.

Yes. You're right we all were newbies once. But I think the point Billy 
was trying to make is that C-Newbies should go join a Newbie-C-List not,
the CircleMud-mailing-list. And I think thats a very valid point.

>> Wasn't Chris writing a FAQ on coding?
>Umm, that faq was never completed, even through version 11. Nor there is 
>a complete version of coding.doc.  If you like, I can send you what I 
>have of coding.doc to prove it.  I don't have problems with coding at 
>all.  I've coded before, but for a completely different mud type.  Just 
>wanted to say that before you flame me.
>>  If so, read that first, I'm sure
>> most of the more newbie-ish "Where do I.. what does this mean?" questions
>> are answered there.... For instance, the multiple attacks code has been
>> gone over at least 2x since I joined the list... if you want a lot of this
>> stuff done, look in the Lostlands distribution where I've put in most 
>>of the
>> multi*blah* stuff... use it like a sample code on how something might be 
>> done, sometimes elegantly, most of the time, not. (Yes, this is a 
>shameless > plug... but the code's free)
>Not to sound stupid, but isn't the point of the list is for questions and 
>support for the circle mud?  If that's not the case then, let me know now.

Yes it is. But isnt it common sense that you first check the code and try 
to learn as much from it as possible before you start asking other people?
Understand that every question takes bandwidth & time, something which is
more or less precious to people.

>> Now, for a good book on how to program in C, the one I learned off of,
>> and still use as a valuable reference:	
>> 	2nd Ed. The C Programming Language by Kernighan and Ritchie
>> Some others (who're now gone, wonder why) have suggested others... For 
>> instance, the Learning <blah> series by the O'Reilly people are very good.
>> If you can't spend the $30 for a book, skip your next game purchase and do
>> everyone a favor.
>The book mentioned is a very good book.  Billy, you can't speak for the 
>whole list, speak for yourself.  So far, it seems that you're the only 
>one expressing an opinion.  I'm sure there is SOMETHING that you can't do 
>well and I'm sure you would get criticized and you wouldn't like it, 
>right?  So think about the feelings of others before directly/indirectly 
>flaming them.

Oh yes, I think he's not only speaking for himself but for alot of other 
people. I dont know how long you've been on the list, but I recall a time
when alot of good coders left it because there were too many newbie C 
questions around and questions that can be answered easily by looking at 
the code, and mind you, I believe if you're not able to do that then you 
shouldnt try to imp a mud, or worse if you're not willing to spend the 
time doing that but instead try to make others spend their time to solve 
the prob for you then you're not worth it either.

>> Get these books so stupid == problems (don't mean to pick on that guy 
>> specifically) will stop spamming the list.  As well as those who are code 
>> blind... go enlighten thyself. RTFM/RTFB
>> <Strom gets off the high horse>
>> -- Billy  H. Chan
>My hat goes off to Jeremy Elson & Crew for spending their valuable time 
>creating what we are administering.  I know it does take a lot of work 
>and time to code the base.  Can you say that you've coded a mud from 
>scratch?  I can't say I have, but I have coded many things from scratch 
>and I will tell you it's not easy.  So before you go picking and flaming 
>people about lack of knowledge on things, remember this:

Get down. I think Billy was expressing his opinion in a very polite 
manner and it didnt sound like a personal flame.

Thomas Krautz                         "If you're that cool,
Johor@MultiMUD ( 4242)    try walking on water sometime."

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