Re: [Legal -again-] Contributions 97 08:21:39 pm

From: Andrew Helm (ashe@IGLOU.COM)
Date: 08/17/97

On Sun, 17, Aug 1997, Daniel Koepke wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Aug 1997, Andrew Helm wrote:

> -+Unfortunately, I'm begining to see the futility of trying to get a point
> -+across to you. What do you think the words "You must not solicit or
> -+accept money or other donations in exchange for running CircleMUD." means?
> I'm not saying it doesn't prohibit donations, what I am saying is that it
> prohibits any type of monetary gain (which *includes* donations).  Do you
> want it German, French, Spanish, hieroglyphs?!  The main purpose of that
> is to prohibit someone from *making money off of CircleMUD*.

Daniel, please make up your mind. Are you or are you not saying that the
CircleMUD license prohibits donations?

> If someone sends you money because they like to play your game (eg., donated),
> the acceptance of that money would be MONETARY GAIN off of CircleMUD.

Yes. It would also be a donation. Amazing, eh?

> -+A) You've invented some fanciful term called "Monetary Gain."
> -+B) You proceeded to show that all restrictions against donations fall under
> -+   restrictions against "Monetary Gain."
> -+C) Then, you reason that since the license *only* prevents "Monetary Gain,"
> -+   donations are okay.
> -+
[full quote added]
> -+Honestly, I'm quite speechless. I've never seen someone perform such a
> -+trick before. The license quite clearly, in more than one part, forbids
> -+donations. It forbids donations for hardware. It forbids donations to
> -+keep the mud running. It forbids donations for monetary gain. In fact,
> -+I'm not sure how the license could be more clearly against donations.
> -+Why can't you accept this?

> I would normally call you a, "fucking idiot," right here; but perhaps I have
> been unclear and a bit patronizing, so I'll explain.  You cannot make money
> off of CircleMUD (monetary gain).  If someone thinks your MUD is real cool
> and sends you money/whatever, your acceptance of this "gift" hence means
> that you have made money/whatever because of CircleMUD.  In other words, it
> is not forbidding someone from making a donation, it's forbidding you from
> ACCEPTING donations or asking for donations.

By forbiding you from accepting donations, it prevents anyone from making
a donation. I never claimed to know whether it's legal for the license to
do this, I just said I've heard some doubts. Anyone who is interested in
the validity of the no donations part of the CircleMUD license ought
to check with a lawyer.

What I did say for sure was the license clearly prohibits donations. What
I can't figure out is why you can't accept this.

> What I said in my last paragraph was simply this.  The license *DOES NOT*
> say, "You cannot accept donations from anyone for any reason as long as you
> run CircleMUD," [...]


> [...] and it does not say, "No-one can make a donation to you."

Yes, actually in so many words it does say that. :)
At least, it says that your CircleMUD cannot in any way facilitate donations.
To assume the license is talking about donations not related to the
CircleMUD you're running is silly.

> It is saying that you cannot *ACCEPT* donations/compensensation sent to you
> because of your CircleMUD.  So, no, it's not robbing some of their free
> will, it's telling you that you can't *accept* those donations.

Umm, how is this different from what I've been saying all along?

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