Re: [CODE] [NEWBIE]? MXP - tough luck telnet users?

From: Daniel A. Koepke (
Date: 07/12/00

On Wed, 12 Jul 2000, StormeRider wrote:

> Something that works with text but enhances it with easy shortcuts via
> mouse is desired. Or at least I'm biased enough toward MXP to think
> so. :)

Of course.  I didn't mean to imply that there isn't room for different (or
"advanced" depending upon your viewpoint) interfaces in the Mud world, nor
am I meaning to say that Muds must be textual.  However, EverQuest has
thrived for two reasons: first, it's a well-advertised, big money project
that has brought muds in an accessible form to the masses (this has more
to do with advertisement and pretty packaging than the actual merit of the
interface); second, it certainly expands upon traditional mud gameplay in
different ways.  That is, its continued success has little to do with its
interface, and everything to do with its viability as a game.  The same
affect can be seen with most Muds.  A lack of advertising makes all the
difference in the world.

> As strong as XML is, it really hasn't yet "caught on". Most people are
> still hesitant to implement it because it's too new to rely upon. Who
> knows if it will be abandoned in favor of something else? After all,
> Mozilla is a project that most people consider to be dead, or close to
> death. Whether or not this is actually true is another story.

One, XML has caught on like wildfire.  It constitutes one of the most
hyped and well-supported emerging standards in the history of the
Internet.  I don't know where you have gotten the idea that there has been
any hesistation in the implementation of XML, but that's simply not the

As for Mozilla... I haven't spoken to anyone who feels the project to be
dead.  I can't even imagine where anyone would get that idea, considering
all of the articles about it and the Netscape preview release 1 that have
surfaced over the past year.  Even some of the original naysayers have
jumped on the bandwagon, and there's absolutely no doubt that not only is
Mozilla alive and well, but it's making great inroads among developers
and, by extension, users.

And even still, I fail to see how this validates MXP's approach.  Even if
we are to believe there is little support for XML, it's still infinitely
more than the support for MXP.

> 2.) His biggest adversaries at the moment, that are selling very very
> well are the MUD Client / Monthly Service package deals for thinks
> like Diablo 2 and EverQuest.

This is a miscalculation of adversaries.  The Mud community and the MMORPG
community are distinct, and Muds are not losing players in any noticable
numbers by the existence of MMORPGs (in fact, I am inclined to believe
the opposite).

Anyway, *he* is moot in this point.  What would be good for him is
certainly not best for us.  His clearly stated intent to keep zMUD the
best implementation of MXP should be more than enough for everyone to
completely shun the specification until he changes the language and makes
it clear that his intent is not to, "embrace, extend, eliminate."  Given
what precisely was said and the fact that he still reserves editorial
rights for all contributions to the specification (although he has removed
the copyright) -- at least as it stands on, zMUD, and (by
extension) a large portion of the Windows platform -- I don't see any
optimistic view in existence.

> * MUDs as standing with text and ASCII art are going to loose favor to the
>   new graphical MMORPGs. Hell, I'd have a more developed MUD if I
>   stopped playing EverQuest as much as I do.

There is absolutely no support for this in existence.  Anywhere.  At all.
That it seems "logical" to many people is a shame.  But for some
perspective, this same thing has been said for the past decade that I've
been involved in the Mud community.  When Doom came out people said it was
the end of Muds.  There are more Muds now and more Mudders now than there
was then.  People said the same thing of Quake.  And people said the same
thing of Meridian 59.  And people said the same thing of Ultima Online.
There are still more Muds and more Mudders now than then, and there's no
sign of it slowing down.


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