Re: A late Re: to Monty Haul and good uses for uber-characters in muds

From: Patrick Dughi (
Date: 08/24/01

>    Firstly, I've found that going by the style of most circlemud games that
> allow player vs player fights that the fights rarely last more than 8 rounds.
>  If it happens to be 2 warriors with 3 attacks each battling it out, you're
> lucky if you can get 3 rounds in.  So in regards to your changing the way PvP
> and PvNPC is played out, I find it a necessity to nerf damage versus players.

        This i've seen; the old brains vs. brawn issue.

        a normally equipped level one char vs a level one mob with
equivilent stats has about a 50% chance to win.

        However...a normally level 20 char can usually take about 30-40
identical stat mobs before he stops to rest.

        This is because the mobs can't compete with players who have
skills and use intelligent combinations of attacks or strategy of any
sort.  To compensate, mobs are given geometrically increasing stats.  This
is also why newbies are more likely to die when they're given hopped up
eq; it's the skills that make the difference, not so much the equipment.

        It's even worse if you manipulate the most important calculated
stats - like hits per round, ability to block attacks or stun someone
(leaving them defenseless or unable to attack), etc.. these entirely ruin
the balance.

        Eventually you'll get to a point where killing a mob is luck; they
have about a 1% chance to hit you, and if they do, it will almost
certainly kill you, otherwise, you will eventually kill them.

        Kinda boring, so far as player vs. npc is concerned.  Your players
leave to play more exciting, interactive games where their choices and
playing style have impact.. something like bingo.

        > rest of stuff - valid stuff - snipped <

        If you're looking at the mobs as weak marshmellows, then that view
point is valid.  Who cares what the balance is, focus on the player vs.
player interaction.

        It just sounds like you're doing an awful lot of work.  Instead of
having one system that works in both situations, you've got two
subsystems, each of which operates on the same data, just translating it
each time before it's used.

        Regardless of how you're using it though, if you have mob vs
player or player vs. player interactions, or both, you'll have a much
easier time if you just get one system that works in both.  It will help
you avoid balance conflicts and the sort.

        My personal favorite system for combat is the dungeons and dragons
system, especially in the ways it differs from CircleMUD; the equipment
does NOT make the man.  If you see someone with a long sword, you
know unequivocally that he's going to do 1-10 damage, plus bonuses which
are unlikely to be more than 5 points - usually no bonuses at all.

Even the uber-phallus-sword-of-who-dropped-the-funk-bomb is going to stick
below a d12.

        Suddenly, it becomes very very easy to see who measures up against
what, and a bonus of one or two points suddenly becomes a very powerful
advantage.  Balance is simplified, mobs vs. pc's vs pc's vs mobs are all
nearly identical types, and best of all; you can always easily make the
'next higher thing'... that is, a mob that will be greater than any
(single) player.  You can, if you'd like, even display all the stats to
your player *10, they'll think they're kicking ass.  Heck, that's what we
do with ac anyway, and people always get a woody about it.


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