Re: Political problems with imortals... (fwd)

From: Mr. Wizard (
Date: 09/07/94

On Wed, 7 Sep 1994 wrote:

>                 v932500@si.HHS.NL

[snip of material about auto-imort issue]
> Exactly my point. A couple of weeks my brother and me where a bit 
> brainstorming of what we miss in circlemud, we came to the conclusion 
> that there is need for real guilds, like there are used in the lpmuds. 

I agree totally.  In fact, I would like to see the abolition of classes 
completely.  You could easily code guilds well enough so that classes 
were not necessary.  (Another way to look at this is to allow 
multi-classes, but I think guilds are more dynamic than the classic AD&D 
vision of multi-classes.)

> I don't know if you are familiar with lpmuds but I remember some guilds 
> from genesis (lpmud). For example players could be a member of one 
> guild, each guild gives some kind of specialties or lives by a strict 
> set of rules. 

Exactly.  And for those of you saying "but a cleric should never be able 
to join a thief guild", that is covered in the guild rules (if guilds are 
coded correctly).  Basically once you join a cleric or priests guild, you 
have forsaken your right to join conflicting guilds.  If you did try to 
join a conflicting guid, you would be thrown out of the cleric guild.  
There are a number of ways to approach this, but it is an easily solvable 

>               In this way guilds could add some extra motivation in 
> playing because you have a feeling of exactly belong to a virtual 
> 'family', even guild could set some strict acces rules to, for example, 
> only let players of level 20 or higher be members. Me and my brother 
> where thinking about adding a real guild for paladins. 

My vision of guilds is more as a more dynamic replacement for classes.  
Restricting membership based on level, and creating a virtual family is 
what I usually refer to as clans.  Guild can get quite large when they 
replace classes.  Even if you have twenty guilds, the classic ones 
(swordsman, cleric, mage and thief) always have a lot of members.  

It is sometimes nice to have a group of players form a clan (I'll stick 
to calling it a clan to distinguish it from my idea of guilds.)  Many of 
you have probably already seen players put things like [ROSE] or [BLADE] 
or something in their title.  What I have decided to do is handle clans 
this way:

1.  Putting the clan into your title makes it an unofficial clan, and 
thus pretty much meaningless.
2.  To make a clan official, it must be sponsored by a God.
3.  Someone must wrte up a constitution (outlining the purpose of the 
clan, guidelines and rules for membership).
4.  The constitution must be approved by the patron God (who can modify 
it to make it more acceptable).
5.  Once a clan is official, members are given entry when they pass the 
membership requirements (as outlined in the constitution).  I encourage 
the requirements to include at least one quest, but they can be anything 
as long as they are approved by the sponsorign God.
6.  Each clan has a symbol (anything from a suit of armor, to a brooch, 
to a weapon, to a holy symbol).  The properties of the symbol are 
determined to match the entrance requirements.  If the clan is extemely 
hard to get into (some tough quests, maybe defeating some hard mobs), 
then the clan symbol can be more powerful.
7.  Non-magical clan symbols are distributed in the clan headquarters.  
This can be automated with a craftsman whom you pay to create a new one.  
(Basically a shop.)
8.  Magical or powerful clan symbols (for the difficult and probably 
exclusive clans) should not be automated, and shoud be handed out only 
with the patron gods approval.

This gives the gods an important role.  Gods can pick their colors, 
symbols, alignment and followers attributes.  Thus they would only 
approve a clan which meets their criteria.  (For example, the Godess of 
excellence in battle would probably support a [BLADE] clan.  However the 
God of knowledge would probably reject a battle oriented clan.  Alignment 
and purpose of the clan also becomes an issue.)

I chose to limit each God to sponsoring only one clan to keep the numbers 
of clans down and the quality of clans high.

> Now that we are on the subject of families, what about adding family names? 
> In this way it would be easy to implement virtual marriages, even to 
> have grandfathers of mothers on your mud (needs a bit of netsex 
> ofcourse, or maybe some adoption of children). 

I've always wanted to see families.  I was thinking of making family 
names, and a pregnancy routine.  That way, when someone got pregnant, the 
next player created would become their child.

A more involved idea would be to have things work like this:

1.  Code family names.
2.  Have a pregnancy routine (maybe even a rape routine for more adult 
oriented MUDs).  Both routines could work equally well with mobs or 
players (a mob could rape you).  
3.  Have mobs for children.
4.  When a mob reaches the age of 15-20, it can be replaced by a new 

This would add a lot in terms of realism.  You could also have families 
of mobs if her were not enough new players to go around.  They would 
reside in your house or castle, and it would be your responsibility to 
protect them.  (There could also be a cost involved in providing for them.)

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