FlameFest II: This is is not CS 1

From: Billy H. Chan (bhchan@po.EECS.Berkeley.EDU)
Date: 05/08/96

From: James A. Young <ja_young@fang.cs.sunyit.edu>

  Yes, I have noticed that trend.  But doesn't mean that someone can be 
  flamed for it though, right?  Understand, we were all newbies once.  Some 
  people have different ways of approaching a problem and should not be 
  condemned for it.

Yes it does.  This list is for Circle specific questions, not questions 
about how to program in C.  If you don't know how to program in C, learn 
by reading a book... most of the silly C programing problems could've 
been solved by simply knowing the language or reading the K&R book.  The 
purpose of this list is not to babysit people through cs 1.

  have of coding.doc to prove it.  I don't have problems with coding at 
  all.  I've coded before, but for a completely different mud type.  Just 
  wanted to say that before you flame me.

Good for you.

  Not to sound stupid, but isn't the point of the list is for questions and 
  support for the circle mud?  If that's not the case then, let me know now.

The C language specific problems (the technical problems I was refering 
to) are not the point of this list.  Nor is this list the place where 
people go to say "How do you write a function?", but more circle specific 
questions like: "I noticed there aren't any multi-class in stock, where do
I start" as opposed to "I noticed there aren't any multi-class in stock,
can someone give me one since I don't know how to program." (though I 
used to supply answers to both types of question).
There was, around October 1995, a suggestion by many 'old timers' to split
the list to two, a newbies list and a more 'advanced' list.  Everyone on 
the list noted that the newbies would just post to the advanced list 
anyway and that idea was squashed.  Instead, a bunch of us just up and left.
Perhaps I should unsubscribe again.

  The book mentioned is a very good book.  Billy, you can't speak for the 
  whole list, speak for yourself.  So far, it seems that you're the only 
  one expressing an opinion.  I'm sure there is SOMETHING that you can't do 
  well and I'm sure you would get criticized and you wouldn't like it, 
  right?  So think about the feelings of others before directly/indirectly 
  flaming them.

The point has been made time and time again (probably every few months).
I was on the receiving end when I first started coding circle, around 
Sept 95.  At that time, there were maybe 10 newbies on this list, two of
whom asked really basic C questions.  They got pointed to a good book and
became more 'enlightened' newbies.
I saw the trend happening again, and I'm basically restating what was stated
back around Sept.

  My hat goes off to Jeremy Elson & Crew for spending their valuable time 
  creating what we are administering.  I know it does take a lot of work 


Ironic, since hats going off had nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

You also get to the top by learning at least a little on your own. 
One last time, the purpose of this list was not to babysit through cs 1.
Quoting from the coding.doc:
  If you want your MUD to succeed and flourish, you'll have to know how to
  code in C... This document won't teach you how to program in C; you'll 
  have to learn that on your own.

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