Re: clans

From: Admin of The Keep (
Date: 10/04/96

On Fri, 4 Oct 1996 wrote:

> -
> :P > ya know, i just used one of the spare ints in player_specials to store
> :P > the players clan and created a simple do_join_clan command and made a
> :P > GET_CLAN macro. 
> :P Dynamic clan creation (eg., online creation of clans that can be
> :P edited/deleted), 
> not something i see as really critical :P
> any new clans should probably initially exist as informal groups
> anyway...

  Personally many people prefer to be able to add a clan without having to
go down to the code, define a new CLAN_x in structs.h, recompile the whole
MUD, and reboot.

> :P clans with ranks, 
> let the players in the clans administer their own ranks, and use the
> title command to display them.  i don't see this as particularly good
> to hard code in, although it really wouldn't be very difficult in any
> event. 

  What, then, prevents the players from changing their titles?  What if
you want RANKS to mean *something* and not be aesthitic?  There's no point
in even having them if they're just cosmetic and don't mean anything, but
if they mean something within the clan (eg., who can access certain clan
commands, etc.) then it becomes more difficult.

> :P clan halls, 
> in do_simple, 
> if ((world[ch->in_room].dir_option[dir]->to_room == room #) && 
>     (GET_CLAN(ch) == CLAN_X))  
>   return 0;
> ok, so you have to know what the first room of a clan hall is, but
> that is no big deal, imo.

  Now you are hard-coding something per clan, so if you have 10 clans then
you have a big 'if' block (or a big 'if' statement).  Or you could compact
it down to a small 'for' statement.  Fact remains though that now you, as
an immortal, must code in the clan, recompile the entire MUD, rebot the
MUD, then build a clan hall.  And most clans will want a larger clan hall,
and the ability to automatically teleport to the clan, and high regen in
the clan hall, and this, and that.

> :P and warring, 
> like ranks, this is more of a role-play thing and shouldn't need any
> hard coded rules for it.

  If you are going to belittle it, sure.  But if you want it to be worth
something, then exchange of clans, destruction of clan halls, economic
impacts upon the individual clan, spying, etc. would make it a lot more
interesting than just having all of your clan members pretend to hate the
other clan and kill them all for no real reason.  This isn't role-playing,
this is having the clan-leader be a dictator that forces the clan members
to engage or boots them out of the clan.  This does the opposite of
creating role-play oppurtunities.

> :P pkill-only clans, 
> depends on your type of mud.  mine is pkill for everyone, no
> exceptions.  of course, everyone is also automatically in a clan, so
> they theoretically have friends to help them out ;)

  True, it does depend on the MUD.  Personally I allow open pkilling while
not clanned.  But I'm beginning to wonder how you are defining clans.
I'll get into that at the end of the message.

> :P quests to enter clans, 
> again, this is more of a role-playing thing, no need to code in
> anything for this. 

  No, this is not a role-playing thing.  You cannot have mortals
simulating quests that are of any kind of interest.  A good clan will have
good quests to gain rank/enter the clan, which will involve code and world
building.  Not just Bob saying, "Go get the broadsword from the Master
Fighter and you can be in the clan." which would be extremely dull.

> :P clan lockers, clan banks, etc.
> set these up to exist only in their clan hall areas, and since access
> to these rooms is already resistricted (see above), they can just be
> set up as per usual.

  No, clan banks cannot be set up as per usual, because you don't want to
have Iggy walk in and take out all of the money then go buy himself lots
of eq so no-one in the clan can kill him, get booted from the clan, and
just beat the hell out of everyone he wants to.  The banks should be
restricted to whom can withdraw (eg., only the leader), and a monthly fee
for clan-membership should be applied.  Anyone should be able to invest
money into the clan.  With monthly charges for owning and operating a clan
and other fees, this should provide many situations for people to
role-play in.

  Lockers aren't even in stock CircleMUD, so setting them up 'as per
usual' is kind of impossible.

> :P It's a bit more complex than doing a few defines.
> doesn't have to be...

  If you're going to completely belittle the signifigance of clans and
just have them 'be there.'  What you are doing is making them purely
cosmetic and not worth anything.  That's a waste of the 5 seconds it
probably took you to implement them.  If the clans mean little to nothing,
then don't even bother.  (eg., like adding races that just add to the

  What you are doing isn't even worthy of calling 'clans'.  Players are
always in a clan (according to what you have said), there is nothing
interesting about clans, clans aren't ran by players, people do not have
the ability to make their clans worth anything, etc.  If you are going to
make clans worth so little, why even implement clans?  Why not just have
your character's role-play and change their titles?  No coding required,

  Or did you even think of that before you tried to make the implemtnation
of clans seem like such a little thing?  It's only a little thing when
you're doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING with clans.  And when you're doing
absolutely nothing but cosmetic work with clans, you don't even need to
code it in -- just give players rules and make them change their titles
to just role-play clans, right?

  Also, clan specific skills/spells and an intricate set of clan rules
(eg., members must remain good, members can only be Elves, members cannot
kill a pig on the first Friday if it's the first winter solice of the
decade to be a Friday).

  "Forgive me father, for I am sin."

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