Re: Distribution pack?

From: Patrick Dughi (
Date: 03/14/01

On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, dave mquackquadart wrote:
> >
> > > You're twisting my words.  I said that the phrase 'by circle hackers for
> > > circle hackers' or whatever was a bs elite'est mentality, and it was.  I
> >
> >I don't think it is unreasonable or elitist to expect that someone who
> >wants to code a CircleMUD to have experience with the C language. If
> >someone wants to use CircleMUD as a tool for learning C, fine, but they
> >shouldn't expect help on the C language from this list.
> I agree.  Unfortunately, this isn't what happened.  What happened is that he
> said circle was origionally 'by hackers for hackers'.  This is what I
> attacked as an elitest concept.  Understand?  You're throwing in specifics
> that were never there.

        Though ->I<- didn't say that, personally, I believe that it was
less of an attack, than a question on the current status of Circle;

From:         Chris Maniar <>
Date:         Tue, 13 Mar 2001 14:29:44 +0100

> But, is CircleMUD gone from "by hackers for hackers (who want
> to run a mud)" to "by hackers for any joe soap without any coding skills
> who wants to run a mud".
> Personally, I still can't really decide which is better, so please -
> comments? :)

        I don't think that CircleMUD, as a distribution, as a mailing
list, or as a community of administrators, programmers, and world builders
ever had an improperly snobbish attitude.  It wasn't ever made to be run
only by people who had the ability to 'fix' it.  So, perhaps it's a moot

        On a related note, how older list members deal with the 'newbie
wars', re;

From:         George Greer <>
Date:         Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:39:44 -0800

> I tend to ignore the (IMO) "non-researched" questions on the list.  If
> someone mails directly to me with such a question, I'll either queue the
> message up (sometimes forgetting to answer it for weeks or months) or fire
> off a short message of where to find it. Jeremy just bounces them to the
> CircleMUD help site.

        I try to never post an entirely unhelpful comment (unless it's
something particularly funny). Even if I say RTFM/etc, I will almost
always post code/pseudocode/links.  When I don't, it's because I know the
answer exists, in verbatim, in the reference I gave, and I'm short on
time.  As a few of you know, I'll even discuss things offlist, on private
mail - which is approprate when discussing non-circle related things (like
how to program).

        So, I may get a little gruff when people who have been here a
not-so-very-long-time give me an unflattering 1 line analysis of my
personality.  Especially when it appears that they may not possess an
unobstructed view of the big picture; either myself, or circlemud, or the
actions of members on this list in general.

        All the same, I try to help, until a person shows themselves
incapable of being helped.  To turn this from a general post to a directed

        Dave, settle down.  People on the list may be compassionless
uber-programmers with unrealistic expectations, or beligerant elitist
snobs, or just plain asses.  But they were here first.  That doesn't make
them any better, or you any worse, but it's their sandbox that you're
trying to play in.  You should probably play nice.  If you want respect
from them, you also have to give respect in return.

        Aside from that, if you drop the whole
hyper-defensive/hyper-agressive act, you'll realize that any given member
of this list is just a normal person.  Normal people have different methods
or ideals all the time.  That's what this list is here to help foster;
the exchange of ideas.  Some will conflict.  That doesn't make it a
personal attack, so please don't take it as one.


ps. Yeah, I know, I hate to say 'settle down' to anyone, since I'd never
want to hear it myself.  But in this case, it's advice, not a command, so
take it with a grain of salt.

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