Re: Thought on a level-less and class-less system

From: Gerald Florence (
Date: 01/18/02

@ > that be considered class-less?  Words can be vague and misleading.  I
@ > guess one has to examine what do people mean when they say class-less or
@ > level-less.
@         Sounds like it'd be more accurate to say 'skill-based'.
@         There's alot of muds out there like this, I'd recommend looking at
@ godwars for one quick interpretation of this (though since players
@ eventually max out all their skills, it's usually more of a sort of
@ ...player vs. player mud)

Exactly, though I want the mobs to have more of a chance.  In examining the
mobspec and the triggers, I'm leaning towards removing mobspecs and creating
trigger codes, removing mobspecs.  It does mean I'll have to check the
trigger system and make sure it can handle this.  I know Lua definitely can
handle it but not sure about DG7a.  I did manage to find a mud that used lua
(Dragons Fang).  When I get around to it, I'll have a basis to work off of
and put Lua 4.0 into the format for a mud.

@ > As for being open-ended, I had in mind where you could increase
@ your stats
@ > but it gets harder and harder to increase your stat or skill to the next
@ > point.  I'm not sure if this is necessarily a good or bad idea.
@  I am on a
@ > mud that has the remort system and stats that can go as high as 500.
@ > (really expensive but doable and time-consuming).  I guess it's a system
@ > just like any other.  One can only come up with a system and
@ hope that the
@ > game is fun enough that people want to play. :)
@ >
@         Personally speaking, I like a system where you can increase any
@ skill, any stat, etc, but only up to a certain amount, and only
@ (collectively) a certain number of times.  That is, the number of times
@ they can increase a skill will allow them to gain an adequate level of
@ usage of maybe 1/8 of the skills in the game, or mastery in 1/12'th (but
@ not both!)

I read your paragraph several times but somehow it's not clicking in.  Can
you clarify what you mean?  What I have in mind at this time, is where one
can master the skill but the skill is open just gets prohitivedly
expensive.  Also, in a player vs player mode, you can't always count on
being the best at sword skill.  You might have gotten yourselve to 20 but
someone might have gotten to 21 if they played long enough.  There will be
other factors modifying the skills, such as world conditions (fog, night,
raining, etc).

@         I just like the idea of having a mud where characters are always
@ capable of being beaten by someone else, even if they are at the pinacle
@ of development, but not have it so simple as a rock-paper-scissors game.
@         This will also require grouping at later stages.
@ > As for coding in the GURPS system, I'd imagine that I wouldn't
@ be able to
@ > put the mud up since it's a copyrighted system.  I'm pretty
@ sure that I'd
@ > have to request permission from Steve Jackson Games to do so.  I can't
@ > imagine they'd deny it since I wouldn't make any money off it.
@ :)  Assuming
@ > that I get it off the ground, of course. :p
@         I pitched this idea to my girlfriend a while back when the mud-dev
@ list was talking about free licence role-playing rules (like, D&D is
@ prohibitively licenced, but D6 is free as in beer).
@         Btw, my girlfriend works for Steve Jackson Games.
@         Apparently, they have a pretty hard core anti-mud stance.  They
@ don't want anyone using their system, or anything that even SEEMS like
@ their system, anywhere.  They especially don't want anyone claiming that
@ it uses their system.

Oh well, I'd have come to the same information by looking at the faq online
posted at Steve Jackson.  I'm not entirely sure of the reasons behind the
anti-mud stance but I'd imagine it's because they want to make sure it's
*correctly* and *professionally* done.  Hmm...if it's professional, it means
that my professional reputation and of course my pay is on the line and so
I'd have every reason to make sure that it's implemented correctly where a
mud doesn't have that incentive.  Oh well....I could use this as an exercise
while I come up with a system of my own or find a "free" system.  I
definitely want to get away from the d&d model.

If you don't have a class/level/skill base system, what could you have?
Hmm..probably a model that I'd rather not the real
world, it's a skill-based system with a sprinkling of talents and stat
modifications.  At least this is my perception.  It could be a perception
colored by having played the GURPS and Hero system for many years, though, I
had played D&D and that model has never came across as modeling the world.

Gerald Florence (Septe)

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