Re: Thoughts Of Division

From: Daniel Koepke (
Date: 12/18/96

On Tue, 17 Dec 1996, Anthony J rye wrote:

> Ok well here is my bitching Asshole!
>  You didnt know shit either i bet when you first started coding either and
> i bet you did the same exact thing!
>  And if You say you didnt your lying to yourself and everyone else.
>  This is suppose to be like a help newsgroup right?
>  at least thats what i thought .To be honest i dont see anything wrong in
> sharing codes with anyone thats a part of learning.So what if they ask you
> cant give a simple answer like no I am stiching ,And i dont share my codes
> ,but if you need help well fuck you i aint doing that either.
>   If your going to be like that why are you even subscribe to here?

Not that I'm a model list-dweller, but I do believe your response was
rather uncalled for.  He didn't say anything that should have invoked
that kind of ranting.

What he said wasn't entirely true.  But neither is what you are saying.
The list is for help in administration and coding a CircleMUD.  It is
not for answering questions about the workings of the 'C' programming
language.  It's not for uncalled for ravings, either.

Personally, I have *NEVER* given anyone code that I use in my own MUD.
Never.  I have written code for the list as a group, though.  I don't
think anyone should expect special treatment or the like.  You can't
expect that anyone will give you their code.  It's not them being
selfish.  They wrote the code, they are permitted to keep it to them-
selves.  What they are doing wrong is making comments about how they
worked hard on their code and aren't going to share it.  I'm sure the
only reason anyone would have to make that comment is that they truly
don't believe that their code is all that wonderful and they need to
convince themselves.  Seeking attention in such a way is a major folly.

Which is not to say, though, that your message isn't a mistake.  That
message was polite and held a moderate amount of respect for everyone.
Perhaps it cast a dim shadow upon newbie coders, but he didn't use
excessively vulgar language.  He was quite nice about the message.  It
doesn't deserve an irrational response.

Truthfully, your reply accomplishes the opposite of what you want to
do.  Being less obscene, more intelligent, and competently arguing the
point in a calm, cool manner is a method far superior than loud, vulgar
heated arguments.  The point is that it makes you look like you are
completely unphased and that you are in complete control, perhaps making
them feel a bit small in comparison simply because you not only keep
your composure through their prodding, but because you are beginning to
sound more and more right.

I think talking around and through things is one of my strong points, a
Talent, if you will.  To avoid the truth without telling a lie, to keep
yourself completely above someone while prodding them, etc.  Try it on
someone.  Just throw in quaint little insults, prod them on.  If they
loose their composure, keep your's.  They'll eventually see that they
aren't phasing you and stalk off.

Of course, I suggest flaming via personal e-mail.  I don't go to a big
party full of friends and get in an argument with my girlfriend (not
that I ever get into arguments with her).  You keep that aside, you
avoid outside influence so that you don't get ganged up on.  If they
take it public, instead of fighting back in the same method, apologize
for their behaviour.  That really pisses them off.  Then take it back
to e-mail.  Pretend they don't publically exist.  Just say, "I'm really
sorry about Blah's behaviour, we're in a bit of a flame war via e-mail
and he decided to go public.  I'll correct the situation.  Sorry for
wasting your time."  He'll probably prompt one or two other people to
them gang up on him and you have him cornered, beat.

I'm sure you see the point.  I know quite a bit about arguing (if I
didn't hate lawyers, I'd probably be one).

Daniel Koepke
Forgive me father, for I am sin.

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